CNN's Chris Cuomo Dismantles Giuliani's "Conspiracy Theory" About The Clinton Email Investigation
CHRIS CUOMO (CO-HOST): Good to see you smiling. At the Al Smith dinner the other night, you looked like Grumpy Cat. You were upset. You had — you didn’t like the jokes that Hillary Clinton was making about you —
RUDY GIULIANI: It wasn’t so much the joke — you know what it was?
CUOMO: You said you want to see her in an orange jumpsuit and she’d be convicted by now if you were prosecutor.
GIULIANI: Yeah, true.
CUOMO: Where is this coming from?
GIULIANI: Coming from being a U.S. attorney for five years, an assistant U.S. attorney for six years, and a federal investigator for two. Law clerk. The crimes she committed are so many, and I see a general like Cartwright get prosecuted for confirming two classified documents that had already been out there. And I see her, having given classified documents to people without classifications, a lot of those people on her staff, straight out federal crime.
CUOMO: But you know —
GIULIANI: Extremely careless in the handling of classified information amounts to the crime of gross negligence.
CUOMO: But that’s not what Comey said. He said we have to prosecute —
GIULIANI: Well, I can have my own opinion. He used to work for me.
CUOMO: I know. But here’s the thing. Look. I know you know him, and I know you respect him, you’ve said it before right here on this show.
GIULIANI: I can have my own opinion.
CUOMO: You certainly can have your own opinion, but it seems like you are feeding the Trump argument that it was fixed. That it was rigged, that Comey should have brought a case and didn’t on purpose.
CUOMO: Donald Trump says that he thinks the FBI rigged it for Clinton, the DOJ rigged it for Clinton. Do you agree with that?
GIULIANI: I can’t agree with that because I have no facts to prove it other than the logical analysis of the facts that she destroyed 33,000 emails after getting a congressional subpoena. That’s like an automatic indictment.
CUOMO: Well, she didn’t. Right?
GIULIANI: People under her control. The statute says —
CUOMO: Although the FBI determined in giving the guy an immunity deal, and we both now know why he did that, they thought he was going to give up up the chain, they decided that he essentially went rogue and deleted these things after the subpoena because he was supposed to delete them before.
GIULIANI: She wasn’t careful enough. There are about five ways —
CUOMO: And he says you don’t prosecute that statute under gross negligence.
GIULIANI: Of course you do. I did. He’s wrong.
CUOMO: They have to show that you lied to the FBI, they have to show intent, and that’s how they’ve prosecuted that statute.
GIULIANI: No, no, there’s a gross negligence statute under which there have been 12 or 15 prosecutions.
CUOMO: Over like 100 years.
CUOMO: It’s an old law and they don’t usually prosecute it that way.
GIULIANI: And there’s never been one of this dimension.
CUOMO: He didn’t agree with you, which is fine. You’re a brilliant legal mind. I’m not making that case. I’m saying Donald Trump suggests he did it on purpose. He rigged it. Do you think it’s irresponsible for him to say that?
GIULIANI: I think it is based on the facts of things like the number two guy in the investigation turns out to have gotten $675,000 —
CUOMO: He didn’t get a penny.
GIULIANI: His wife got the money.
CUOMO: I mean, Rudy —
GIULIANI: What –
CUOMO: I have looked up to you my entire life because you’re so accurate, and all of a sudden you’re in Trump land, and the facts are all over the place. He didn’t get a penny.
GIULIANI: They filed joint tax returns. She was running for office.
CUOMO: It was a campaign contribution.
GIULIANI: Of $675,000?
CUOMO: He gave similar amounts to other candidates.
GIULIANI: Wait, wait. Let’s get the facts straight.
CUOMO: Yes, let’s.
GIULIANI: He was the head of the Washington office.
CUOMO: Not when she got the money.
GIULIANI: Oh, wait a second. Under investigation at the time was a person named McAuliffe for illegal campaign contributions. An investigation —
CUOMO: Hold on. Hold on a second.
GIULIANI: She should have never taken that money from him.
CUOMO: But that’s different. Then take up your beef with the FBI director’s wife, not with Terry McAuliffe.
CUOMO: Let’s keep it straight. You started this by saying McAuliffe essentially was paying off the FBI guy. He gave a campaign contribution to his wife, and it happened before the FBI guy was within 1,000 miles of the Hillary Clinton email investigation.
GIULIANI: And then after the FBI guy is in — his wife is in McAuliffe’s pocket, one could argue, McAuliffe gets promoted — the guy gets promoted from head of the office, he never should have gotten it in the first place, because McAuliffe was under investigation in that office. That campaign contribution — straight conflict of interest. Donald —
CUOMO: You’re not even close to connecting anything yet.
GIULIANI: You guys are so darn unfair to Trump. I swear to God. If that happened to a Democrat — that happened to a Republican —
CUOMO: Rudy, you just say that because you don’t like the facts. Here’s the facts.
CUOMO: You’re saying that McAuliffe interfered in the investigation by giving this guy money.
GIULIANI: No, I’m saying he created a massive appearance of impropriety.
CUOMO: No, but only in your reckoning because you got the timing all wrong. Or you’re suggesting it wrongly to other people.
GIULIANI: I don’t have the timing all wrong.
CUOMO: The guy wasn’t even in the job at the time that he donated to his wife.
CUOMO: This sounds like a conspiracy theory. It sounds like a conspiracy theory.
CUOMO: You can criticize the investigation, but this McAuliffe stuff is far-fetched at least, and conspiratorial in the main. The timing is wrong, Rudy.